powered by Jerry Wickey
Key West
800 722 2280
jerry@jerrywickey.com

Jerry's Home Page
Sunday Sep 24, 2017
4:56 pm


Create your own discussion page online instantly.   To customize contact jerry@jerrywickey.net
Its free, easy and fun!



Share

Tweet

Status

Summary of the Hebrew Prophets as Quoted by Jesus of Nazareth

no comments
1 subscriber
2715 page views   187 mobile   1469 search bots

refresh page


Socratic Method is one of the oldest and most respected forms of productive debate. There are many unproductive methods. All of which should be avoided. Socratic method is a very old and respected means to quickly and definitively resolve difficult issues by adhering to rules of conversation which are carefully designed to keep the discussion on track and drive it toward rapid and unreserved conclusion. Conclusion is reached when after carefully selecting questions designed to spotlight an affirmation's error, no one involved in the conversation is any longer willing to dispute the rationality of the affirmation.

Wikipedia on Socratic Method
SocraticMethod.net

In this way, conclusion is forced upon those who remain in disagreement, but have no rational reason for their disagreement. One remaining in disagreement is forced to admit "I still disagree, but fail to provide a reason for my disagreement which others perceive as rational." The irrationality of his or her position becomes obvious to those involved in the conversation.

For this reason Socratic Method is very unpopular with politicians who often desire to remain uncommitted on some issues.

How do I comment in Socratic Method if I disagree?

Do not pose an alternate position or attempt to show that there is a better way to handle the issue. This is the error most make in debate. Nothing ever ends up resolved because both sides continue supporting their respective and opposing views and neither view is refuted. Neither party has any reason to concede. Neither party finds it intellectually embarrassing to continue supporting their original position.

First, make sure you disagree. An argument is not won with fancy words, but by discovering the winning side before choosing your position. Is your position winnable? If not, accept it and change your mind, otherwise Socratic Method will reveal your irrationality to others. Once you've answered that, list the assumptions upon which the affirmed statement rests, and which if shown to be false, make the affirmed statement's error obvious to others.

Restate that assumption in language and terminology which make the affirmation's reliance upon the assumption obvious and ask those affirming if they agree with the assumption.

If the assumption is specious, wait to point out the assumption's flaw in your second question after those affirming answer their agreement with the assumption. Post "Considering that you agree with that particular assumption, do you also agree with its obviously erroneous implication, thus.....?

If you have difficulty finding an erroneous assumption or an error of conclusion implied by assumptions made in the affirmation, double check that you still disagree. You may find, to your surprise that you agreed with the statement all along. You just didn't think about it carefully enough at first.






Part 1
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until every word that is said in them is accomplished."  --Jesus as recorded by Matthew 5:17

Every word that is attributed to Jesus in the Gospels is a quote from the prophets  right down to "the meek shall inherit the earth" "You have heard it said of old, but now I say unto you"  "I am the good shepherd"  "fishers of men" "those who have ears to hear"  Every word He said is quoted from the prophets and I can show you where.  

This is a summary of what the prophets said:  

In the beginning the Everliving created the heavens and the earth.  It was created for one purpose and one purpose only.  To serve to educate and mature the children of God.

[the dates and modern names are not provided by the prophets]
About 2 million years ago, modern man was not present on the earth, but all manner of man like creatures did inhabited the earth.  Australopithecus, Homo habilis, Homo erectus and Homo ergaster among others.  Some with agriculture and some with nomadic society.

About 250 thousand years ago, modern humans appeared.  They shared the planet with Homo heidelbergensis, Homo neanderthalensis, Homo floresiensismodern.  By about six thousand years ago, all were gone except modern man.  The prophets have little to say about prehistory, but they do reference it calling these modern men  "men whose portion is of this life only"  "They go to the grave and there is no remembrance of them.  They have no voice from the grave.  They are gone forever."  They are animals -- very complex arrangements of molecules which feel happy and sad and angry, satisfied, generous and selfish, just like animals.  They and all other life... and the mountains and the rivers and the oceans serve only to provide an environment in which God's children can learn.

At about six thousand years ago, modern man was joined by a modern man which the prophets call Adam.  God's children were placed on the earth and God breathed His own spirit into them.  "You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High. But you will die like mere men."  Though Adam has a spirit, very quickly the prophets explained he came to die just like everyone else.

It is in the descendants of this one man, Adam, only that the children of God live among men for only they have the spirit of God which is not constrained by the laws of physics and chemistry.  All others are humans "who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit."  On the other hand, death has no power whatsoever over God's spirit.  God's spirit is not a product of this universe.  The universe was made by God.  Nothing about God comes from the universe nor can be described as "pure energy" nor "ectoplasm" nor "power of pure thought"  These are all hokum and nonsense.

There are many in whom God's spirit simply does not reside.  This greatly clarifies all the misunderstandings of the New Testament where Christ seems to suggest that some are not called and can not hear the word.  If you wonder whether God's spirit resides within you,  then He does.  Animals do not consider this question.  They don't care.  They wake and do today what they did yesterday.  Out of habit and familiarity.  They hate, love, work and fight, build and destroy.  They think brilliant thoughts and invent machines, but it is all merely a product of biochemistry, the wonder and complexity of God's creation.

In this early time of man, most men were animals, the children of God were few having descended only from Adam.  Adam's descendants took wives and husbands of the humans and many of Adam's descendants were not imparted with spirit.  That changes dramatically through the course of history to the present.  Over the course of the next 5000 years, God's children become as "numerous as the sand of the beaches" displacing natural man.

God shaped the world of men several times before the first of man's governments arrived.  The Holocene Impact Working Group of scientists (google them to learn more) is finding conclusive evidence of more than six massive meteor impacts over the ten thousand year course of human civilization.  Far more than astronomers think possible.  Indeed, it is probably impossible for this many to have struck earth in less than ten thousand years.  

Archeologists found Bab edh-Dhra, the ancient name for Gomorrah, and the other four nearby cities of the plane.  They were the site of an impactor.  They were destroyed so completely that they have never been rebuilt.  However, the nearby city of Zoar was "miraculously" spare by the impact and is still inhabited today by a different name.  Also tectonic effects of a meteor in the Indian Ocean toppled an ice dam which held back melt water from the previous ice age.  The bursting of this dam, formed at the Bosporus straights, inundated the whole fertile crescent in which the children of God were living.  

Indeed, I agree with the astronomers.  That many major impacts could not have happened naturally.  I also agree with the Holocene Impact Group's findings.  These impacts and the events they caused did happen and the Hebrew scriptures as well as other ancient documents record them describing them as the hand of God.


Part 2
It is after these events, that the first governments of man formed.  Daniel explains the whole history of man in his vision.  He writes that in the night, he dreamt of terrible things which troubled him.  In multiple dreams, a beast rose from the sea and crawled upon the land, walking on and trampling all the earth.  In the daytime, when Daniel was fully awake, an angel came to him and explained the dreams.  This is the same beast that John sees in his Revelation letter.  Ignorance of John's quotes from Daniel lead to almost all of the silly misinterpretations of the Revelation letter.

This is what the angel said to Daniel and to John.  Man, the children of God, will be tried and tested for seventy life times.  This is to refine them and to mature them, for they shall rule in God's stead and must be fit rulers.

(Seventy life times is about 5000 years.  The span of a man's life was always about 70 years.  I can show you ancient text, 3000 years old, that reports the average life span as seventy years.  "sometimes eighty years, if healthy." )

After the 5000 years, God their, father will reveal himself, But during these 5000 years, four empires will arise.  Each subjugating the last.  Three of them were named by name for Daniel.  Babylon was the first, then Persia, then Greece.  It is at this time when Greece is about to subjugate Persia that Daniel lived and wrote these things, about 500 BC.

The angel goes on to explain that shortly Greece shall be victorious in the current wars between Greece and Persia, (the Greko-Persian wars) but the angel added: Greece shall not last long.  A fourth empire, stronger than Greece, which he does not name, shall arise and conquer Greece.  That stronger empire shall never be conquered by another world wide empire.  Instead it shall merely crumble into pieces.  It is just before the time that it crumbles that the Messiah shall come, but the Messiah shall not rule then.  The angel told Daniel, that the Messiah shall die instead.

The angel continues into the future of mankind from Daniel's point of view.  After this fourth empire crumbles, ten nations come out of its remains.  Each nation shall be ruled by their own king.  These nations shall continue until the end of the 5000 years, when shortly before the end, a last nation shall arise.  It shall be governed differently, not by a king but by laws; and this nation shall grow as strong as the other nations and the other nations shall look to it for leadership.  It is in the time when these last nations are agreed together that the end shall come, the angel tells Daniel.  Wonders, increases in knowledge, and marvelously devised devices are predicted.  The sense of the text is not a trigger moment for the end times, but it is a period of time over which the nations which rose from the empire which defeated Greece and the final nation which rose from those nations grows to be strong and agree with each other -- in this period of time the end is imminent.

The governments of men are a beast, a living creature. A mortal living creature with a life span of about 5000 years.  This beast will die.  This is how God sees the world of men and their governments.

Daniel does not mention China nor the Americas, but Daniel knew of them.  Deep sea going vessels are mentioned.  Ships that take three year voyages and return with gold, silver, ivory, monkeys and peacocks. (Gold from the Americas by way of the Pacific through the Suez canal, which was operational three times in human history; and animals from Asia.)  Archeology shows by both genetics and artifacts that contact and trade did exist between the Americas and China and the Western world in the second millennium BC, but that contact stopped by about 1000 BC

Other prophets, Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the twelve others explain that God stopped the contact sometime between 873 and 849 BC.  They say, He broke the deep sea going vessels so that more could not be built.  It doesn't explain how.  Probably political.  Those vessels were huge expenses requiring public funding.

God was not done shaping the world to teach those men who can learn.  In the time of Babylon and Persia, the prophets say that God gathered His children into Egypt and nursed them there.  When they were weened from Egypt He took them to be a nation for themselves for a space of about a thousand years.  Then God broke them and scattered them into all the world in about 600 BC.  He said "I shall make your descendants as numerous as the sand of all the beaches upon the face of the whole earth."  "I shall drive you into all the nations and languages and peoples of the whole earth."

This was about the time when Greece finally conquered Persia.  Of course Rome was the stronger empire that subjugated Greece and Rome crumbled into the nations which became modern Europe out of which the United States arose in the last 300 years.  And now the world looks to the US for leadership.

It is in these times, the prophets say that "The days come when God's delivering Israel out of Egypt shall be completely forgotten, because He shall do much greater.  He shall deliver His children from all the nations and the peoples into which He had driven them from all the earth."

During all this time, the beast which Daniel saw, which is the governments of men, are ruled by leaders who are blinded by God, so that they harm people and bring trouble to the world.  God does not work to bring peace.  He works to teach lessons and does so by making trouble.  "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." --words of Jesus Himself.  Those who wait on God, those with ears to hear and eyes to see know this and expect problems.  They thank God for them.  God is not blessing one who leads a trouble free life.  God is ignoring him.  

This is the time in which good people suffer and those who take from their suffering the balance between justice and mercy show themselves to be the meek.  After the Day of the Lord, the meek are given authority over ten cities and some over five and some over one city according to what they have learned.  Jesus says this plainly to His disciples, but to the crowds he simply says "The meek shall inherit the earth."  This is a direct word for word quote from the prophets.

Jesus is asked directly.  "Why do you speak in riddles?"  He answers His disciples directly.  "If I spoke plainly, they'd understand.  What good can come from that?  how else can they learn?"  He also points out that the prophets had already explained this.  "I will refine you"  "I will melt you, and try you; shall a loving Father do otherwise for His daughter, my people?" "I will correct you in measure" "I will test you to purge, and to make you white" "You shall be refined as silver and gold are refined to make them valuable." "God is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap" "God shall try every man`s work of what sort it is"  "Come, says the Ever Living, let us reason together... let us consider your latter end."

To His disciples he says it plainly. Literally the wealth of the nations and the leadership over the people is given to the meek, those who have learned the balance between mercy and justice.  This explanation is expanded in the prophets from wherein the quote is found.  When His Apostles ask Him, what exactly will our roles be.  He says to them plainly.  You shall be the 12 kings over man."


Part 3
This is how this change of government comes about.  The world changes from what we see today which is intended to teach into the world where the current incompetent governments are replaced by those who have learned.

Of course Rome knew of and traded with China, but China then as now merely follows the west.  Though many now believe, China will shortly overtake the west, China will not have the time.  And of course, the empire greater than Greece and which crumbles to become individual nations led by their own kings was Rome and the nations which it became are the nations of modern Europe.  The latter nation which is not ruled by a king, and which grows as strong as the other nations put together is the United States.  

The prophets then explain exactly how the end of the governments of men will come.  Jesus says "As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the time of the end."

"It is in the time of these last kings and this last nation, that the end shall come."  "I saw what looked like a huge mountain, all ablaze.  It was thrust into the sea."  Massive meteorites reshaped the world in the times of the patriarchs and one last meteorite will bring about this last change. "It was hotter than the sun and scorched trees as though they were burned in an oven"  "It opened a bottomless pit out of which rose a black smoke that blotted out the sun and darkened the sky... for five months."  "Earthquakes greater than anyone has felt occur all over the world."  "Mountains and islands are removed from their places."

"They hear news of the destruction in Damascus in the evening, by morning the destruction is upon them."  The atmospheric shock wave and the atypically large tsunami this impact creates moves at about the speed of sound.  So an ocean impact in the middle of the Atlantic is known the world over, but each part of the world suffers at a different time.  "They ask where is that police man, where is the tax-collector, where is that man in authority?  They can not be found.  They were swept away by the destruction."

The prophets tell us this is a fatal blow to mankind.  "Men hide in caves and under rocks, languish and curse God."  This world wide cataclysm does not spur religious unity.  Instead 2.5 billion Christians, 1.5 billion Muslims and the remaining 1.5 billion Hindus and Buddhists will burn their holy books in complete disillusionment.  Atheists will believe they were right, but it will bring them no peace.  This world wide cataclysm won't bring men together, but instead makes them despondent. "A third of mankind dies, but not from the destruction.  Most die from the aftermath --famine, disease, and the violence of man against man."  Soon men see that no government could ever rebuild and give up hope entirely, some killing themselves and others wishing they were dead.

To the survivor's amazement a government does recover.  This government is the last beast that both Daniel and John saw in their visions.  The angels say so directly.  "The beast that you saw is the government which suffered the fatal wound but healed."  Of course the fatal wound is the meteorite.  This government, beast, living creature, is the very epitome of what government has always been.  It believes that mankind's future is entirely in mankind's hands.  They believe no god exists to save mankind.  So anything can be justified to save mankind.  Murdering an entire population because there is not enough food to go around is justified in their minds.  "They regarded not the God of our fathers, but obeyed the god of forces," a god of necessity.  

God is not pleased, but those who have learned their lessons are learning still.  "And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days."  The good will still suffer until the very end.  They suffer because they resist this new government who captures and prosecutes them.  Often in ad hoc post apocalyptic scenarios with instantaneous capital punishment.  This is called the "filling up of the martyrs"

When God finally does reveal Himself, He does so just like He did two thousand years ago.  Just like few believed Him then, so only the few who understand will believe Him then.  The only difference is that two thousand years ago, He came as a lamb, then He comes as a lion.

The man Jesus of Nazareth returns to walk the earth again.  No rapture, no heaven, no hell.  These are not mentioned in the prophets or by Jesus.  The only hell is the burning chaos of the meteor.  Heaven is still an ephemeral place which can not be understood by mere men.  It is the place of God's throne in heaven.  God is not constrained by the laws of physics and understanding it is not possible by men, yet, explain the prophets.

Upon Jesus' return, the prophets explain that the faithful, those that wait on God, those that understand and are meek, those who have suffered and taken from their suffering the balance between justice and mercy are bodily resurrected from their graves.  Most of these faithful who lived through the meteor have been killed by the post apocalyptic government for opposing their order.  This killing is what John refers to as "the filling up of the martyrs."

Once resurrected, they know to go to Jerusalem because they were taught by those who understand.  In Jerusalem, they are met by Jesus who selects the leaders.  A portion of them begin to build a massive city.  The plans for this city are found in the prophet Ezekiel.  The prophet Ezekiel says this city is 40 miles in diameter, as large as any modern city.  Jerusalem is one of its eastern suburbs.  The other portion of the resurrected faithful go out into all the world to put down all vestiges of the recovered human government.  They become the kings of God through out the whole earth, in every nation and every people and every language.  Their rule is irresistible because the hand of God Himself works to place them in power.  

Most survivors of the cataclysm probably come to believe that this "Jesus" guy is just some guy who is usurping the ancient texts, claiming to be God and that his followers just got lucky to take control of the world.  None the less, most will submit, just as they submitted to man's government.  A few, including those who can not bring them selves to understand that mankind is very young, but still trust that mankind is mature enough to govern ourselves are told by Jesus Himself.  "Bring those who do not want me to be king over them, bring them here and kill them in front of me. "

When His kingdom is established on earth, "the nations shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."  The entire world will be taxed, a just tax and that tax shall flow into the capital city and be the living of those who learned the balance between mercy and justice.  The name of the capital city is Ye-Shammah.  "God Lives Here"




email link to a friend
tweet
status


Share this discussion with your friends   



Know an expert on this subject? invite them

Subscribe to be notified of posts
Recommend this discussion to a friend

Their email
Your name
this discussion with a friend.


To prevent web bots reckless use of email, please delete the word that does not belong.

to receive emails when
new comments are posted.
Your email

Email addresses are never shared with anyone


Post your comment

To prevent web bots spam disruptions, please delete the word that does not belong.


Name
Where are you from
Email address Hide

Your Comment:         September 24, 4pm

   

No Posts